Vega+ Shipping Dates
End of September 2016 October 2016 In time for Xmas 2016 February 2017 A "few weeks" from March 10th 2017 Summer 2017 8 weeks from August 9th (October 4th, 2017)
- Mid October 2017
Who better to talk about Lee Christian Fogarty/Creative Spectrum than Lee himself? Over to Lee Fogarty...
Lee Fogarty on working for RCL
"I don't know how many times I can say I'm not employed by rcl"
When Lee is asked if he works for RCL part time or full time, "I don't work for them".
Posting on World of Spectrum discussing one of George Cropper's videos: "And I still want to know where my retainer payment is as the video clearly states I am being paid...."
When asked "Do you work for the Vega people?" Lee replies "I work for the vega people on different projects - they have their hands in many pies!"
When asked about working for RCL, Lee replies "Nowt to do with me - I only host the website and update the blog. Got no access to anything else. Not an employee, don't get paid, etc"
When asked to comment on Retro Computers Ltd paying Lee to quell any discussions in either Spectrum4Ever or the World of Spectrum forums, Lee replies "And you have proof I am paid? Which I'm not. I'd love to see a copy of this contract I'm supposed to have?"
On World of Spectrum, Lee says "I'm interested in learning more about this retainer I'm on!". A reply is posted "Don't you have absolutely nothing to do with the production of the Vega+?" and Lee replies "As far as I know. Paul/George seem to know differently."
When asked to confirm if Retro Computers Ltd are not a client of Lee's company Creative Spectrum, Lee says "They [RCL] are a client of the company. As web hosts. I also host hundreds of other sites, but I'm not employed by any councils, the police, several schools, a bridal shop, or any of the other sites I host."
When asked why Lee's name is all over the RCL updates, Lee says "I post lots of things for lots of clients as part of the service."
When asked "Does Lee Fogarty work for Retro Computers Ltd Suzanne Martin? Because he's told everyone in this group that he doesn't" Lee replies with "That's because he doesn't."
And the follow up question: "So you don't publish their official statements and update their website then?" receives the reply "What does being a web host have to do with anything? I host loads of sites for clients but I don't work for them. Clutching at straws much?"
In a message on Monday 6th February 2017: "Apart from being a backer myself, my company just hosts the website. Nothing else is anything to do with me"
In a message on Tuesday 14th February 2017: "I'm NOTHING TO DO WITH RCL. nothing. zip."
In May 2017, Lee is now a tester for RCL when he posts "All of the signs we are getting as testers are yes it's happening".
On Wednesday 29th March 2017, Gareth Corfield releases an article on The Register that includes the following: We asked a company spokesman for comment. That person had previously given The Register a half-hour interview on 9 March this year, in which they asked not to be named and for their comments to be attributed to "an RCL spokesman"
In August 2017, Paul Andrews states that he has copies of the bank statements for the last year. Lee Fogarty pre-empts any release by posting "Some people are asking how much my company has charged RCL over the last 16 months. In total across multiple projects, it's around £14k."
Suzanne Martin/RCL posts a message about Lee Fogarty: "He is a contractor - no secret on that front."
Vega+ in production/manufacturing
When Lee Fogarty is replying to a backer on World of Spectrum in April 2016 who was worried about losing their £105: "You haven't lost anything - it's in production."
"Naughty SMS stating on 25th April they had pushed the button on production."
"@robmanuel Don't worry - this is mostly made up and speculation. The Vega+ is in full production as expected."
"There have been far more updates on this than there ever were on the original Vega. It's a product in production - not much more to say."
"The only reason people are twitchy with this one is because of trolls with nothing better to do causing trouble and making false claims to try to discredit the company. The reality is very different, and some people are going to look very stupid in a few weeks. I guess there will be many more updates over the coming weeks."
In mid July 2016, Lee says "I have no idea what they were doing at the factory when I was there then...."
"The vega+ is a different beast, and it's already in production, so discussions about what could be are moot. The Next has more of a community vibe about it. Besides that, it's difficult for them to say anything currently without being trolled.."
"Well this isn't the place to discuss it, but the product is in production and has been for some time. It's along the same schedule as the original vega."
On Saturday 1st October 2016, Lee posts on facebook "Busy few months ahead. Vega+ moved from production to manufacturing, new software to be released in the new year, and some funky new clients on board! So I take a night off lol"
When Lee was asked to clarify whether he had seen the Vega+ units rolling off the production line: "No - it wasn't production line - it was seeing the process of going into production - that is the difference. I never said I had seen them being made - I said I had seen it going into production. The production process is a lot more than just rolling them out"
When asked "Did you or did you not state on Facebook last year that you had seen the Vega+ in production?" Lee replied "Yes I did, and I've seen plenty of evidence of production since then, as has everyone else. What I didn't see until the launch party was the manufacturing process."
RCL website restoration
In April 2016 when Paul Andrews and Chris Smith resigned as directors, RCL were given notice to transfer the RCL website to their own hosting provider. According to Paul Andrews, an electronic backup of the website was sent to RCL along with a DVD backup sent by snail mail. RCL ignored the request to transfer the site, and eventually the website was taken offline. Paul Dunn (who was being paid by RCL to create the "every child can code" website) contacted Lee Fogarty to help restore the website. Lee Fogarty stated that the website was restored from the backups given, but Paul Dunn's version does not match Lee Fogarty's version:
Lee Fogarty: Website is back...
HarryHenderson: I saw this, but I am curious as to why Chris Smith and Paul Andrews names are on the "About Us" page, when before it was down, their names were not on it??
Lee Fogarty: The website was restored from backups given. There is no problem with manufacturing and it's full steam ahead!
HarryHenderson: So the answer is no, we wont see a packaged one, and have to take their word for it, despite it being open now about comments and questions being deleted from indiegogo etc.... and no one updating the website (from back ups) despite them stating on indiegogo that they were making changes to it. (even though it looks exactly the same as it did before Chris Smith and Paul Andrews names were removed, and it suggests that the head office is back in Luton again??)
HarryHenderson: Oh no, correction, the new address is in London now, but the rest of the information is wrong. Odd if it was restored from back ups that some info has been correctly changed don't you think??
Lee Fogarty: Not really. I only had what I had to work with. The priority was getting the site back up.
Lee Fogarty: How did you read "manufacturing is full steam ahead" to mean "no"?
HarryHenderson: Well I asked if we would see a fully packaged vega+, which is kind of normal, to create excitement and confidence and probably help future sales. If you aren't doing this... then one has to question why? And if it is even in full production... for me... too much has happened (see various forums) to have full confidence in anything said without a pinch of scepticism. Too many posts were deleted while still accepting sales on indiegogo... which is kind of shaping your campaign to look good rather then letting backers see with transparency on what they are investing in. Hell the retro computers website is very much misleading by having Chris smith and Paul Andrews names on the about us page. The reply for this was it was restored with old back up info... yet the new head office address seems to have been updated. So are they trying to sell this vega+ with the names of people that they shouldn't? All I asked was in light of all of the dubious deletions of concerned backers, and now the website being out of date... can you show something concrete. If it is in production... then this shouldn't be hard... Plus seeing the real thing would be mega cool.
Lee Fogarty: Just so that we are clear - there have been *no* website changes from my part - aside from removing the forum. Everything else has been recreated from the backups. Backups that RC had no control over. The process of producing the product hasn't changed at all.
Lee Fogarty: You are asking questions that can't be answered on WoS! We have nothing to do with the product! And as far as I can see, the issue of the product being released has been answered - it's in production. Two people have left a much larger team. Boohoo.
Dunny: 'sokay, Redballoon - you just have no idea what just happened here. Obviously I'd not class all of WOS in with that statement, just the ones I don't like.
We literally spent all night getting that site back up. All bloody night. Frantically pulling archive.org's html apart, trying to re-assemble the sites as fast we could so that we could get them back up with a minimal delay to the people that had become invested in RC. Not to mention that I'm quite proud of what they're doing with the ECCC thing.
And then "Harry" here (how appropriate the "Big Foot" connotation turned out to be!) comes wading in with carefully crafted accusations about how we were waging some sort of propaganda... Well, I just lost it a bit.
AndyC: I'm not sure that "We're a reputable tech company but can't manage a simple website, please send us your monies." should give people much more faith than the alternative, to be honest with you.
Lee Fogarty: Which is, of course, exactly what didn't happen.
AndyC: If "Frantically pulling archive.org's html apart" isn't indicative of a complete and total failure to manage a website, I'm not actually sure what is.
PEGI rating - a "1 day job"
The exact number of games that have had their rights revoked (due to assumed lack of royalty/charity payments by RCL) is unknown, but estimates suggest the number is somewhere between 250 and 500 games. Licence holder Zenobi alone have revoked rights to approximately 200 games. Regarding PEGI certification for the device, Lee has said the following:
"The thing is, on the original vega, every game had to be recorded for 15 mins and checked by pegi individually to give the unit a rating and a report per game was sent back. Andrews was in charge of that bit but.... he's pissed pegi off so many times over the years, they weren't too helpful - he struggles with anything involving thinking and freaked out over the forms as it had taken weeks - so Suzanne stepped in and sorted it that day. So, this time... he's taken all the documents and is convinced that without them all the games need doing again - but pegi like RCL now he's gone, so that's not the case. RCL have to record the titles that are different - which is done. My guess is it takes a day"
Disclaimer: As anyone that knows anything about the PEGI rating system, PEGI does not work like this...
Coming soon, just a bit longer...
Lee Fogarty has posted the following comments on social media or in private messages:
On 15th October, 2016: "5 days to launch! Excited!!"
"The aim is to have it available before xmas"
"There will be a lot of updates and videos this week I hear"
"I know there's more updates coming - whether there will be any over the weekend or not is unsure, but certainly over the next 10 days"
"I do know whats going on with Pegi and the units from Monday - again, there are legal issues around it that can't be talked about at the moment"
"And that they left SMS to have the firmware installed elsewhere. I know where they were sent - not what's happened to them since"
"I've got the manual here, and still can't post that as an update"
On March 8th 2017, "No roll of honour but I think the mail is going out tomorrow - again to stop him [Paul Andrews] contacting backers"
On March 9th 2017 when replying to the question "When can I buy one?" Lee says "June"
When replying to the question "Did anyone get their roll of honour email?" Lee replies "I didn't get mine."
SMS are "just around the corner" from Lee
"I live round the corner"
"I am local to the factory"
"well - it's a couple of hours by public transport"
"it's still a long journey for me though lol - I don't drive and live in the country"
"think its about 90-120 mins each way"
"it's 5hrs for janko & suzanne"
Lee Fogarty on who is who
"And *if* I am right, and Duncan is George and just uses the same two pics, he's not disabled"
"BTW - Duncan James Ball does exist. However, he's not disabled. George however, registered on WoS in 2012 using "Jamies" email address. All 3 of them have websites registered to the same address, and there's only 2 pics of George anywhere.... I think you'll find it's George that doesn't exist"
"You also need to look out for MrMajors and Stuart Black who are both Paul Andrews too. He's too chicken shit to post in his own name. So he has loads of names, and several puppets."
"Ah - the caps lock king Jamie. Who may or may not be George."
"She is darren melbourne"
"If you believe what kingpin just said, you'll believe everything she has said!"
"Wouldn't be surprised if @AndrewsucksPaul is Paul so he can cry foul again."
"Deidre and Bob Majors are both Darren Melbourne"
"George is paid by Andrews. Ratcliffe is a mate of Andrews. Jools Turrel is paid by Melbourne"
"Diedre Harris aka Sara ellingham"
"Now - Stuart Black. He's also Bob Majors from Wikipedia fame. Strangely, they both post from an address linked to Paul Andrews...."
"gamerjay is most likely zxkinkpin"
When George Cropper asked "gamerjay, bobmajors, zxkingpin, nickH so these are all one and the same person?" Lee replied "no - its two or three - there are others but they are these under different names"
Lee Fogarty on charging for Wordpress
I'd sack my website guy if he charged thousands for a free to download wordpress template. Swings n roundabouts.... #zxvega— Lee Fogarty (@FogartyLee) 4 November 2016
In August 2017: "Some people are asking how much my company has charged RCL over the last 16 months. In total across multiple projects, it's around £14k."
Physical abuse and beatings
For someone that claims to be regularly running to the police force to report abuse against him (the MET being his favourite), Lee Fogarty seems to have bragged an awful lot about threatening and claiming to have physically beaten people up. The following quotations are from posts made by Lee Fogarty on the World of Spectrum forums.
Lee Fogarty financial advisor
"Buy a baseball bat. Best investment I ever made."
Lee Fogarty CSI expert
"Buy a nice baseball bat from your local sports store & go to his address. If you keep the plastic wrapping on the bat and take it off when your finished, there will be no fingerprints or blood on it."
Lee Fogarty and the police
"I was burgled a few years ago. The police told me who did it, and that they would never be able to prove it. They suggested I got the guys one by one and beat the shit out of them with no witnesses, whilst telling them why they were on their way to the hospital.
2 beatings later, I get a knock on my door. This guy tells me that he found a load of my belongings in his shed and he would be very happy to return them.
Not that I would condone the use of a baseball bat, sometimes it is the only solution."
Lee Fogarty on how to obtain a TV
"And, if you think bleugh is persistant you should hear what happened to the guy that owed me money. I bet he was wishing it was baliffs that turned up! Instead, he is being investigated for fraud, and when he is found guilty, will still have to pay me what is owed.
I also lent someone £80 a few years ago on the promise it would be returned a week later. After two months of asking, it never arrived. I went to his house, and left with his 28" TV.
Face it, some people work hard for their cash and don't take lightly to being ripped off."
Lee Fogarty on how to stop someone typing
"Whats even funnier is that I've reported him to AOL as well! Dumbass.
If he keeps it up, I might go & visit him with my baseball bat. Broken fingers should stop him typing."
Lee Fogarty on selling World of Spectrum archive
"I have what seems to be an almost complete archive. Cant say for sure though.
I would be happy to provide DVD's, but the whole lot comes to 10gb, so it would have to be 3 dvd's. Or I could just put games on which comes to about 1gb
If this is worth me doing, I will make some snazzy covers and buy some 3 disk holders.
Probably come to £30 for the lot though which might be a bit expensive."
Lee Fogarty on Twitter
Lee used the @WorldOfSpectrum twitter account for what seems to be abuse and slander of Paul Andrews, Nick Cooper and various others, until members of the World of Spectrum site persuaded Lee to use his personal @FogartyLee twitter account. Here's a selection of Lee's tweets:
Interested to know how much of the misappropriated funds under Andrews control should have gone to charity? #zxvega— World Of Spectrum (@WorldOfSpectrum) October 15, 2016
Either the retro community aren't charitable (which we know they are) or they believe Nick to be a crook by association. #zxvega— World Of Spectrum (@WorldOfSpectrum) October 15, 2016
More and more people coming forward with claims of being conned, harassed and threatened by Andrews over the years. Interesting... #zxvega— World Of Spectrum (@WorldOfSpectrum) October 15, 2016
When it's shown andrewsuk is behind all of the trolling, will Joe still have a job? #zxvega— World Of Spectrum (@WorldOfSpectrum) October 27, 2016
#zxvega Family & friends trolls avoiding the question. Does Paul Andrews support recovery of missing funds whilst he was MD? Yes or No?— Lee Fogarty (@FogartyLee) 7 December 2016
#zxvega Wondering if Nick has my house bugged? How else could he hear slander? Which is only slander if not true. Same with libel.— Lee Fogarty (@FogartyLee) 7 December 2016
#zxvega Still no answer from Andrews friends/family. Does he approve of RCL recovering missing funds from his time as MD? Owns 25% shares.— Lee Fogarty (@FogartyLee) 8 December 2016
#zxvega Is Paul Andrews silence saying he doesn't agree with action to recover funds that went AWOL when he was MD? Strange not to want it— Lee Fogarty (@FogartyLee) 9 December 2016
#zxvega Bit awkward for Paul Andrews when his mate Nick Cooper take cash on his watch - not interested in the 25%? Or is it now 50%?— Lee Fogarty (@FogartyLee) 9 December 2016
Think Andrews forgot the time he took me to court with fabricated evidence and got thrown out? No problems sending docs then? #zxvega— Lee Fogarty (@FogartyLee) 15 March 2017
- All refunds processed: ✘
- Roll of honour email: ✘
- Address confirmation: ✘
- Battery specification: ✘
- PEGI certification: ✘
- Final specs released: ✘
- Games list released: ✘
- Finished box design: ✘
- Manual released: ✘
- Final devices made: 0 ✘
- Prototypes made: 20-30 ✔